[Stonehouse]

(See Moderator's Note in post #6)


My question is, the egg donor decision might be made quickly, but have they said whose biological kid it's going to be? I'm assuming they'd use Kevin or Scotty's sperm. So... which is it? I think that would be the bigger fight.

[lcalee]

Stonehouse, on 03 November 2009 - 09:34 PM, said:

My question is, the egg donor decision might be made quickly, but have they said whose biological kid it's going to be? I'm assuming they'd use Kevin or Scotty's sperm. So... which is it? I think that would be the bigger fight.

They have not said yet.

[Stonehouse]

lcalee, on 03 November 2009 - 10:39 PM, said:

They have not said yet.

Right, so I think that's the bigger issue. Does Kevin want his own biological child to make up for losing Elizabeth. Does Scotty want his own Biological child because his life is basically all about the Walkers and he wants something of his own. Not that they wouldn't both be the parent and love the child, but it is different when it's biologically yours, especially in a gay relationship, because if they break up the non-biological parent has no rights to the child. Or at least their rights can be taken away easier.

[optimist88]

Stonehouse, on 03 November 2009 - 11:48 PM, said:

Right, so I think that's the bigger issue. Does Kevin want his own biological child to make up for losing Elizabeth. Does Scotty want his own Biological child because his life is basically all about the Walkers and he wants something of his own. Not that they wouldn't both be the parent and love the child, but it is different when it's biologically yours, especially in a gay relationship, because if they break up the non-biological parent has no rights to the child. Or at least their rights can be taken away easier.

I believe California allows same-sex couple adoption, which means that with the proper paperwork, the non-biological parent would have rights equal to the biological parent.

[sueli]

Maybe they are already in agreement to handle it the way Justin and Kevin did for Elizabeth [and William] and use both of them as donors?

[lcalee]

Moderator's Note:

I am moving some posts from the episode thread to this thread. Please use this thread to discuss theories on Kevin & Scotty's surrogacy/baby plans.

[Laira]

sueli, on 04 November 2009 - 06:45 AM, said:

Maybe they are already in agreement to handle it the way Justin and Kevin did for Elizabeth [and William] and use both of them as donors?

Yes, I think it would be the best solution.

I agree with frenchie from the episode thread. I don't like Michelle, I don't like that they use a friend as a surrogate, I don't want to see her everytime I see Scotty and I don't want Kevin an Scotty arguing about the surrogate.

And the surrogacy thing is so ethical questionable, I wish they have decided for adoption.

[kris1982]

Stonehouse, on 04 November 2009 - 01:48 PM, said:

Right, so I think that's the bigger issue. Does Kevin want his own biological child to make up for losing Elizabeth. Does Scotty want his own Biological child because his life is basically all about the Walkers and he wants something of his own. Not that they wouldn't both be the parent and love the child, but it is different when it's biologically yours, especially in a gay relationship, because if they break up the non-biological parent has no rights to the child. Or at least their rights can be taken away easier.

You would think this would be one of the first issues they would have shown in the whole K/S surrogacy storyline unless they are going to do a similar thing to what Justin and Kevin did for Tommy. Considering the fights they are having re selecting a surrogate I suspect this will be a much bigger issue for them as a couple if they decided to chose just one of them.

[Einna]

Ok, I have normally not much to say because I agree with the majority in most cases – but not in this. I thought since this storylines seems so universally disliked I say something positive about it. I love this storyline because I've never seen this storyline played out with a gay couple and I want to see Scotty & Kevin with their own baby – so it’s a totally selfish reason for me :-) And I really like Michelle.

First of all I don’t think the timing is wrong. I know a lot of couples who had their first child in the first year they were married. And yes they both have their own career but so do a lot of other couples and they make it work, because there’s never a right time for a kid, you always have to get over some obstacles and I think if planed right Scotty & Kevin can handle a child. Beside this is a TV-show times is running against them you never know if and when they get cancelled and everything happens much faster in TV anyway.

Secondly, the repetitiveness of the storyline. I really don’t care about that because I was never interested in the baby drama of Kitty and Julia so I only watched it halfheartedly. What matters to me are the persons involved. For me it’s interesting to see how Scotty and Kevin handle the situation, what kind of parent’s they’ll be and so on. So while the same situation didn’t interest me with Kitty at all, I’m looking forward to the baby drama because it involves Scotty and Kevin, form me it’s all about the persons.

Thirdly, I don’t think they’ll much care who the biological fathers gonna be. I read some stories of real life couples who went through the process of surrogacy. Some went with the mixing like Justin and Kevin did other planed ahead so one would be the father of the first and one of the second child. As far as I know in the case of a divorce in states were gay adoption and surrogacy is allowed there’s no difference between the biological and the other father. Genes don’t matter – if you adopt you’re not blood related and the kid is still your kid – so I don’t think it will make a difference for Scotty and Kevin who the biological father is, but I agree I’d like to see them talking about it soon.

And finally, I don’t think there’s anything ethically questionable about it. On a personal not I totally would do it if my gay best friend would ask me. I don’t want to have kids, but somehow – being a curious person- I’d like to know how it is to be pregnant – so perfect solution. It’s not your egg so it’s not your kid – I don’t see the problem, it’s not much different than adoption. I think it is great Michelle is doing it. I think it’s easier going through such a process with a friend than a complete stranger, I would have a hard time trusting them. Sure I wish they would establish the friendship between Scotty and Michelle better but I just gonna fanwank it and say they’re BFF’s we just never go to see them. I think we have to see it isn’t so easy to adopt –especially if you’re gay. It’s easier if you want to adopt an older child from foster care, but there are lots of obstacles to overcome – not everybody is a wealthy senator.

Sorry for the long post, I just had to get it off of my chest – feels like I’ve just written an English essay.

[Laira]

Einna, on 04 November 2009 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ok, I have normally not much to say because I agree with the majority in most cases – but not in this. I thought since this storylines seems so universally disliked I say something positive about it. I love this storyline because I've never seen this storyline played out with a gay couple and I want to see Scotty & Kevin with their own baby – so it’s a totally selfish reason for me :-)
First of all I don’t think the timing is wrong. I know a lot of couples who had their first child in the first year they were married. And yes they both have their own career but so do a lot of other couples and they make it work, because there’s never a right time for a kid, you always have to get over some obstacles and I think if planed right Scotty & Kevin can handle a child. Beside this is a TV-show times is running against them you never know if and when they get cancelled and everything happens much faster in TV anyway.

I only want to say that I totally agree with you about Kevin and Scotty having their baby. I love this storyline and I want to see them with a baby as soon as possible. My only dislike is for Michelle. I also agree about that I think the time is right for them. I prefer adoption for a selfish reason too, I want to see them as fathers in this season because I don't know if there will be another season and I don't want to see their scenes being destroyed by Michelle.

I don't think this storyline is universally disliked, in all the polls that I saw about it, the majority of people want to see Kevin and Scotty becoming parents.

[Einna]

Laira, on 04 November 2009 - 09:30 AM, said:

I only want to say that I totally agree with you about Kevin and Scotty having their baby. I love this storyline and I want to see them with a baby as soon as possible. My only dislike is for Michelle. I also agree about that I think the time is right for them. I prefer adoption for a selfish reason too, I want to see them as fathers in this season because I don't know if there will be another season and I don't want to see their scenes being destroyed by Michelle.

I don't think this storyline is universally disliked, in all the polls that I saw about it, the majority of people want to see Kevin and Scotty becoming parents.

Fair enough. I wouldn’t mind if they adopt – I just want them to have a baby. I’m just so fascinated by the concept of surrogacy and all parties involved, so I want to see it played out. I can understand your reservations about Michelle. I wish they would show her as sensible and good friend. She has a fun personality and I think she’s able to handle the pressure of the surrogacy.

I may have overdramatized a bit with universally disliked, but although polls show many want a baby for Scotty & Kevin, what I read is totally different. So maybe the silent majority loves the baby storyline and I just got the feeling from many posts I read who don't really like the storyline – maybe it’s my selective perception.

[WibbleyWobbley]

Einna, on 04 November 2009 - 08:48 AM, said:

I may have overdramatized a bit with universally disliked, but although polls show many want a baby for Scotty & Kevin, what I read is totally different. So maybe the silent majority loves the baby storyline and I just got the feeling from many posts I read who don't really like the storyline – maybe it’s my selective perception.

Speaking for myself only, it's not that I dislike the plot. I was wary of it at first, and I still continue to question some of the choices the writers are making, but I am enjoying it for the most part. I'd like to see Kevin and Scotty with kids (someday), but more importantly, I think this is a very important storyline and I want them to do it well. That's the impression I get from most other posts as well - not that the SL itself is hated (although, of course, some people don't want it), more that there are critiques as to how it's being handled.

I liked the character of Michelle, but I do wish we saw more of her motivations and at least some justification for Scotty's faith in her. I'm not, however, worried that the plot is going to become all about her. I don't think we're going to see that much of her, really. Probably more along the lines of Trish where she'll show up occasionally or be referenced off-screen until the birth.

What I wish more, however, is that we saw them come to the decision of surrogacy vs. adoption. In Tommy's case, Kevin strongly advocated adoption, and I think Scotty would be into it, too. My personal belief for why they decided to go with surrogacy is because of the Elizabeth thing and Kevin's concerns about "losing" another child, but we don't really know for sure. I'm also not sure about gay adoption laws in CA, but I imagine it would be at least somewhat difficult to get a kid in the first place. However, I think that would have been an important conversation for them to have. I personally find surrogacy rather ethically questionable and...selfish, and the expense is obviously a huge concern for Scotty at least, so it confuses me that we haven't seen more conflict over the method they're using, rather than just who, when and how the surrogacy will happen.

[Einna]

WibbleyWobbley, on 04 November 2009 - 10:13 AM, said:

Speaking for myself only, it's not that I dislike the plot. I was wary of it at first, and I still continue to question some of the choices the writers are making, but I am enjoying it for the most part. I'd like to see Kevin and Scotty with kids (someday), but more importantly, I think this is a very important storyline and I want them to do it well. That's the impression I get from most other posts as well - not that the SL itself is hated (although, of course, some people don't want it), more that there are critiques as to how it's being handled.

I liked the character of Michelle, but I do wish we saw more of her motivations and at least some justification for Scotty's faith in her. I'm not, however, worried that the plot is going to become all about her. I don't think we're going to see that much of her, really. Probably more along the lines of Trish where she'll show up occasionally or be referenced off-screen until the birth.

What I wish more, however, is that we saw them come to the decision of surrogacy vs. adoption. In Tommy's case, Kevin strongly advocated adoption, and I think Scotty would be into it, too. My personal belief for why they decided to go with surrogacy is because of the Elizabeth thing and Kevin's concerns about "losing" another child, but we don't really know for sure. I'm also not sure about gay adoption laws in CA, but I imagine it would be at least somewhat difficult to get a kid in the first place. However, I think that would have been an important conversation for them to have. I personally find surrogacy rather ethically questionable and...selfish, and the expense is obviously a huge concern for Scotty at least, so it confuses me that we haven't seen more conflict over the method they're using, rather than just who, when and how the surrogacy will happen.

Hm, maybe I should just stop reading afterelton- I love that site but they’re so over Brothers and Sisters.

I want them to tell the story well too– till now I think they did. Naturally I wish they would spend more time on their thought process behind it all, but I think the decision to having kids is often spontaneous and impulsive so I have no problem with Kevin suddenly wanting a kid and Scotty suddenly changing his mind.
Well a big part of Michelle’s motivation is money but I’d like to see and hear more what Scotty and Michelle’s friendship is based on. I think we’ll see more of Michelle than of Trish – I think with surrogacy your more involved than with adoption.

Yeah, I totally want to know why they decided on surrogacy not adoption but I’m not complaining about the route their taking. Well I disagree with you on the ethically questionable but a lot of countries agree with you since it isn’t allowed in many because of the notion of buying a kid. Surrogacy is maybe selfish but I don’t tell straight couples they should rather adopt than carrying their own baby. And I’m not really a fan of international adoption. As for the money part I think most have the wrong impression about adoption. I read the book “the kid” from Dan Savage a while ago, in which he describes the (nerve-racking) process of adopting a baby in the USA with his boyfriend and as far as I can remember they had to pay 70-80k in 1999. By the way gay adoption rights aren’t the only problem, the mother chooses the adoptive parents and not many want to bring their baby in a gay family.

[optimist88]

I think the writers chose surrogacy for an obvious reason: They already had an adoption story via Robert/Kitty.

Surrogacy does present somewhat different issues, so I can see why they would have opted for it in terms of storytelling novelty.

[WibbleyWobbley]

Einna, on 04 November 2009 - 09:57 AM, said:

Hm, maybe I should just stop reading afterelton- I love that site but they’re so over Brothers and Sisters.

I want them to tell the story well too– till now I think they did. Naturally I wish they would spend more time on their thought process behind it all, but I think the decision to having kids is often spontaneous and impulsive so I have no problem with Kevin suddenly wanting a kid and Scotty suddenly changing his mind.
Well a big part of Michelle’s motivation is money but I’d like to see and hear more what Scotty and Michelle’s friendship is based on. I think we’ll see more of Michelle than of Trish – I think with surrogacy your more involved than with adoption.

Yeah, AE is not going to give you a wide range of opinions about the show right now.

I don't see it as particularly spontaneous, at least not on Kevin's part. There were hints about them becoming parents last season as well. I also understand that time has passed (over the summer), and they need to keep storylines moving to a certain degree. And K/S storylines have never been particularly well-developed, but I am hoping for more here still.

Money isn't enough of a motivation/explanation for me. I suspect money is a big part of why ANY surrogate will agree to carry a baby, and agency surrogates have probably put more thought and research into that decision. Not only was Michelle's volunteering quite spontaneous, the show is also portraying it as being more or at least to a certain extent about their friendship ("I've gone from being your friend Michelle..."). I have several really close, lifelong friends. There are maybe only 1 or 2 of them that I would seriously consider carrying a baby for if they asked me to, regardless of how much cash I was being offered. There are other, much less emotionally and physically demanding, ways of getting or borrowing money, and so it's simply not enough for me. Considering even more that they are friends, this is not just some open and shut "deal" and so could have emotional ramifications years down the line. Assuming they stay friends, she will be at least some small part of the baby's life, or at least aware of its existence, from now on. There's no indication that Michelle has thought through any of this, and yet like I said, they're acting like it's at least partially brought on by a desire to do something nice for a close friend. I still feel Kevin is right to be concerned, and frankly whether she drinks/drank a lot would be among the least of my concerns.

I still don't expect to see much of Michelle. You're right that there's probably more involvement in surrogacy, but that's in the real world. This is a TV show which a large ensemble cast, and the guest actress in question is currently doing another show in NY full-time, as I understand it. Logistics-wise, I just don't see her playing a major or continuous role.